A few other things... For ~$1k I'd expect something larger than an 80GB drive. The drive has the typical folder structure you'd find using a digital camera and it appears that the DVR OS lives separately on flash memory. (We updated the firmware using my SD card.)
Ben Drawbaugh
· 1 year ago
Did you check to see if the content was protected?
There should be a way in the Moto STB to verify the content should've been protected.
The loophole may be in your provider's network, not the Gefen box.
Dave Zatz
· 1 year ago
No, we didn't verify specific shows or channels were flagged or encrypted. However, we verified HDCP handshake (issues) via HDMI using this same Moto STB when attached to an HTPC. My guess is they think the "recording" limitation doesn't apply because they're not taking that HDMI signal bit for bit, but re-encoding on the fly.
I sent some additional info to John Falcone of CNET - I'm hoping he can dig a little deeper than I can to find out what's going on. Feel free to go for it as well - I emailed you a Gefen contact.
PS Notice the HD DVD and Blu-ray logos on the box? Hmmm... We didn't test HDMI recording from those sources, but perhaps we will.
mike
· 1 year ago
So the little box converts the digital HDMI signal to analog output, then re-encodes on the fly to a diginal signal? I guess that makes sense since your input would be mpeg2 and your save is in mp4.
razordullwit
· 1 year ago
Shh...keep it down! You don't want the media companies to find out about this and shut it down, do you?
Brent
· 1 year ago
Dave, I've heard you can connect a USB device to move or copy recordings from the hard drive of this box because the resulting files are in fact unprotected. Does this sound correct?
By the way, this is another good step in the right direction. I won't be able to use this device because of cost and the fact I already have a more-than-capable HTPC, but I'm excited about this type of HD recording capability - sort of similar technology as the coming-soon Hauppauge HD-PVR device.
Dave Zatz
· 1 year ago
Brent, you'd have to open the case and interface directly with the hard drive as the DVR doesn't have USB (or network) ports. We repurposed a controller chip from a Maxtor travel drive to go IDE->USB and pull the files off. And yes, they were unprotected.
By the way, it's more than similar technology - it's the same company. The Gefen DVR is using an Ambarella chip (see the pic above) like the upcoming Hauppauge device (and some high def video cameras). Though at least two other companies are producing mainstream chips for encoding HD on the fly, including the one we're using at work in the upcoming Slingbox PRO HD.
Brian Hoyt
· 1 year ago
Now I may have some way to archive the HD stuff on my dying HR10-250. I wonder what restrictions the Hauppage device will have as far as DRM or other down-rezing? Or Dave can you comment on the features of the apparently similar features of Slingbox Pro HD?
Big John
· 1 year ago
Gefen is like an enigma when it comes to PVR tech. I've been waiting patiently since CES 2007 for their pvr that supposedly was supposed to dump to USB (didn't happen).
A standalone PVR solution that isn't source dependent (Tivo needs cable) is an important step, however Gefen (like most companies) gets it half right. No ethernet, no USB (although Newertech's Drive Adapter might be an option. What's the deal with 2 HDMI inputs (dual-tuner) and only HDMI out?
Update: Google Checkout just charged my card for the PopcornHour
$1000 for unencrypted re-encoded HD isn't worth it in my opinion, anyhow... and for most content there's a variety of ways to archive HD copies without cracking a case. (TiVoToGo, cablebox+firewire, Windows MCE, etc).
They still haven't explained how they're compliant with HDCP which explicitly states NO recording (my main point) other than temporary buffer, though I spelled out my hunch above.
By the way, it's purely an academic question on my part. I say we toss HDCP entirely.
Ben Drawbaugh
· 1 year ago
I'd think they could record it, as long as the continued to control it afterwards.
Dave Zatz
· 1 year ago
Ben, the license agreement is pretty clear...
3.1 No Copies. A Presentation Device shall not make any copies of Decrypted HDCP Content for any purpose, except for such temporary buffers as are permitted under Section 3.2.
and...
Decrypted HDCP Content may be temporarily buffered in a Presentation Device to enable and perform the Presentation Function, image processing function (e.g., picture-in-picture display, image overlay, image enhancement and brightness adjustment) or "freeze frame" of a single frame of Audiovisual Content, provided that such buffer shall not persist for more time than is necessary to perform such function.
trevor
· 1 year ago
I dont know...the price is pretty steep and it only record in 1080i. Is it worth it?
All Comments
There should be a way in the Moto STB to verify the content should've been protected.
The loophole may be in your provider's network, not the Gefen box.
I sent some additional info to John Falcone of CNET - I'm hoping he can dig a little deeper than I can to find out what's going on. Feel free to go for it as well - I emailed you a Gefen contact.
PS Notice the HD DVD and Blu-ray logos on the box? Hmmm... We didn't test HDMI recording from those sources, but perhaps we will.
I've heard you can connect a USB device to move or copy recordings from the hard drive of this box because the resulting files are in fact unprotected. Does this sound correct?
By the way, this is another good step in the right direction. I won't be able to use this device because of cost and the fact I already have a more-than-capable HTPC, but I'm excited about this type of HD recording capability - sort of similar technology as the coming-soon Hauppauge HD-PVR device.
By the way, it's more than similar technology - it's the same company. The Gefen DVR is using an Ambarella chip (see the pic above) like the upcoming Hauppauge device (and some high def video cameras). Though at least two other companies are producing mainstream chips for encoding HD on the fly, including the one we're using at work in the upcoming Slingbox PRO HD.
A standalone PVR solution that isn't source dependent (Tivo needs cable) is an important step, however Gefen (like most companies) gets it half right. No ethernet, no USB (although Newertech's Drive Adapter might be an option. What's the deal with 2 HDMI inputs (dual-tuner) and only HDMI out?
Update:
Google Checkout just charged my card for the PopcornHour
Gee, thanks Dave! ;-)
They still haven't explained how they're compliant with HDCP which explicitly states NO recording (my main point) other than temporary buffer, though I spelled out my hunch above.
By the way, it's purely an academic question on my part. I say we toss HDCP entirely.
3.1 No Copies. A Presentation Device shall not make any copies of Decrypted HDCP Content for any purpose, except for such temporary buffers as are permitted under Section 3.2.
and...
Decrypted HDCP Content may be temporarily buffered in a Presentation Device to enable and perform the Presentation Function, image processing function (e.g., picture-in-picture display, image overlay, image enhancement and brightness adjustment) or "freeze frame" of a single frame of Audiovisual Content, provided that such buffer shall not persist for more time than is necessary to perform such function.